design forum - DesignAddict


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	title of this thread your message What's most annoying about this ongoing discussion is the occasional person who jumps into the middle, willfully ignorant of the complexity of the subject and makes some grand sweeping, and usually erroneous, statement. Welcome to the discussion Poach. Let me correct some of the broader errors in your last post: No, Vitra hasn't worked with George Nelson on any of the clocks. They have worker with Jaqueline Nelson, George's wife, former member of Nelson Associates, and executor of the Nelson estate. Vitra produces the clocks to the specifications on original drawings and designs from the Nelson Office archives. These are the same drawings and specs that would have been provided to Howard Miller. And yes, Herman Miller contracts out other companies to make different products - including, in the past, Modernica. But they weren't 'rebranding and existing knockoff' - they were hiring Modernica to make them. But now they dont contract Modernica, and like it or not that means Modernica's case goods are not technically ESUs. (I'm talking about legitimacy, not quality) And the Knoll thing really bugs me. Because no - the Barcelona chair that is available today is not the same as the two made for the Barcelona Pavillion. But Knoll didnt make those changes - Mies did. Himself. In his lifetime. Not just "Florence Knoll buying the license" - Mies worked with Gratz Industries in NY (see this months Modernism) to develop a way of welding the steel to allow the pieces to be single formed instead of bolted. Gratz made the chairs for years....for KNOLL. I'm not saying there aren't some grey areas in the whole field. Modernica has good quality, but really shitty designs of their own - proving that 'design' is more than just aping a form. Vitra has made some changes that people don't approve of - like widening the base of the dowel and eiffel armchairs. But Herman Miller also made changes to the Aluminum group (adding another tine to the bases). The point is, authenticity is a much more complex argument than just all or nothing, and it's tiresome when it is so completely oversimplified. associated web images (optional) associated web link (optional) your email your password create a forums account \| you forgot your password?