this link
it's hidden in the other thread.

http://www.thomaspenrose.com/diy_cord01.htm

but do you have the Danish nails?

I'd probably start
by taking care of the finish on the rest of the chair.

Edit: You beat me to it, *spanky*!

Hi...
...and sorry, I didn't notice the link in the first thread, so this thread can be deleted.
Thanks to all of you.

Agreed.
But the first thread is definitely a keeper.

Sure!
I would love to see photos.

Wow...that looks like a lot...
Wow...that looks like a lot of paper cord for one chair. Also, I imagine keeping the necessary tension is a difficult task.

Interesting!
I wonder why they didn't do the basket weave on the underside, too? It would be more work but would take care of any even-tension issues (not that there are any, it'd would just eliminate having to keep that cord evenly taut on the bottom).

edited to add: the good news is that this weave will be way easier for a novice to do than what I thought it should have (the rush seat weave). Yay for that!

Also, the two tacks shown are done on the Moller chairs too, in addition to all the L nails. They just anchor the beginning of the cord and the tail end when done.

Moller is easier
Cedara: Moller style, with the L nails, is easier, because you don't have to pass a bundle of cord around and around the chair when you do the weft.

Both look nearly identical doing the warp.

But with the weft, Moller style, the cord sits in the box with a hole cut in the top, with the cord coming off the inside of the roll, and you take a bend in the cord, weave it across the chair, catch the bend on the nail, pull tight, catch the cord on the opposite nail, and repeat. You are weaving two lengths of cord at a time this way. And you never have to measure or cut the cord until you finish the weft.

Hi...
...I've got it!!!
I'm as proud as ... but it was a heavy job, first I thought, okay, just an afternoon and it's done, but it took three days and my fingers now are completely "out of commission"!
I know the bottom of the chair is not perfect, but only our cat can see it!

Nice work, Marie!
.

spacing of L-nails
Hi, I'm not sure if it is appropriate to post on to the end of this thread, but along with part I, it seems to cover a lot of ground.

I am cording a new bench (I made it so there are no existing nail holes), and I'm wondering about the spacing of the L-nails. I borrowed an example of cording from a friend which has the nails spaced at about 1" apart, perhaps a bit more. (It would have been a good idea to sort this out before I designed the bench, I know) The best spacing that I am able to configure is 1-1/8". Can anyone comment on whether this might result in a weave that is too loose? Is there a magic number for this? I am using Danish cord.

Many thanks!

This may go without saying, b...
This may go without saying, but make sure when you do hammer in your nails, that you don't put them in a straight line. I started doing this on the first Moller chair I re-wove and realized that the rail was starting to split. Never made that mistake again.

no nails on the side rails...
Thanks for your response. You mention that the nails on the side rails should be closer together... The sample that I have does not have any nails on the side rails. The start of the cord is tacked, and then it just wraps. Is there something wrong with this?

Thanks

[I apologize if you read this a few moments ago--it looks like I have my answer about the odd number of nails in the intervening posts--thanks!]

Loutro
You can wrap the side rails instead of using nails but you'll have to weave with a finite (cut) length of cord rather than pulling off the spool as you go. This is because you have to pull the entire length around the side rail before weaving it back across the seat. It takes longer and you have to be careful to keep your hank of cord from getting tangled as you weave and wrap, but other than that it is not really any harder to do.

My current method of keeping the cord neat is to do a hank that is about 14-16" long, secured in the middle with a heavy rubber band. I can pull a loop or two out at a time without the whole thing getting messed up. As the hank thins out, I redo the rubber band so that it's snug. Works pretty well if I'm careful. (I have no desire to spend 3/4 of my weaving time undoing tangles, which is what used to happen. Ugh.)

Oh, man.
Those guys have quite the backlog!

Cool pic. Thanks for posting!

Espen would know,
if he comes back to check this thread. I think he used to work for them, right?

Nice looking cat
Moller chairs are always an oil finish, which is generally self-evident as there is no coating of varnish on them.

Black cord is quite difficult to come by in the U.S., and expensive. The only supplier I know of, in the UK, told me they no longer ship it to the U.S.

You are saying there is no support under the chair fabric at all? Literally nothing? Are there any pre-existing nail or staple holes from the original upholstery or cord?

Moller chairs have always had...
Moller chairs have always had either 17 nails in the front and back, or 19 (it has to be an odd number). I do not know that it is critical, but I believe that the inexpensive, thinner diameter cord I have bought from Frank's looks better when you use 19 nails, and the slightly thicker "Danish imported" cord that some of the other suppliers carry looks better with 17.

Cat is 17 year old, 7 pound, "Plato"
Thought it was oil. Glad that it is. Easier to maintain. Easier to restore. Phew.

Thank you tchp for the confirmation. There was a sight with black cord, but it is UK. I will inquire but am expecting your information to be true.

It appears that the chair has a burlap webbing straps spanning side to side and front to back. Between it and the orange seat is some batting and then between it and the black linen underside, there is more batting.

I don't intend to do more chairs, but if I can do it and do it well, then it may turn into an "on occasion hobby." 105 dozen may be a bit much though!

If I cannot acquire black cord, Frank's is probably where I will go based on all the other sources named in this thread, etc.

Natural cord with a gray cat - certainly better contrast!

Thanks all. Ready to hear other opinions, thoughts.

That appears to be an upholst...
That appears to be an upholstery job that was done at the factory. It has black trim tape which looks like it has the original black painted staples.

Have fun with those...
Have fun with those staples....Its brutal.

Upholstered?
I am clearly no expert. I did not know that these came upholstered originally. I DO NOT have such skills or appropriate equipment.

Input from the group?

1) Get them upholstered (not orange)?

2) Cord them myself?

Thanks. I will have to measure out and place nails (hope I am capable - I am a high school math teacher!).

Thanks everyone. Yes, little Plato is out tiny little one.

New Guy
Or a "new guy" like the novice I am did not do his homework and seek out knowledgeable folks to get advice before hand!

The wife is coming over to the natural.

Corded. I have an email in for black cord. Maybe the seller would be more apt to ship if there was a decent sized amount. I can ask. If anyone is interested, let me know how much, etc. Again, could be all for naught, but . . .

Thank you, Spanky, for your thoughts.

Someone on this thread or the
first edition thread had a source and wanted to know if anyone wanted to go in on a big order. So you might want to look for that.

Thirty dollars per chair for cord is still way less than you'd pay someone to either weave a new one or upholster with fabric.

dying danish cord: preliminary test
I just soaked a few feet of danish cord I have laying around (unlaced, from Frank's supply) in water for about 30 minutes. The cord was very thoroughly wet after 30 minutes soaking. Then I set it out in the sun unrolled to dry (takes no time in new mexico desert sun). It appeared slightly thicker when it was dried, but when stretched, it resumed its normal thickness and appears identical to when it went into the bath.

Next step will be to try this with something black. I am thinking fabric dye (RIT), or maybe india ink (watered down?), aniline wood dye, or perhaps a quebracho bark powder tea bath followed by iron sulfate.

or rubbed off on one of my pair of fabulous Lilly Pulitzer pants.
I'd be pissed..and would require an extra cocktail to cope. But it's happened before..and all was well, I guess. Who needs pants anyhow?

Oh my.

Aunt Mark

Fiber reactive dyes are the ones to use
on cellulose, but last time I used them it was recommended to use double the amount to get a true black. The literature at the time (mid-90s?) said that it was hard to get a good black, so...I dunno, seems iffy.

When dyeing cotton, which is cellulose, too, you have to first soak it in Glauber's salt, which is sort of like table salt but not exactly. I think you can also use un-iodized table salt. Then you gradually add the dye to the salt bath and agitate the stuff you are dying so that it dyes evenly. If you don't agitate it, you can end up with uneven areas of dye absorption.

Then you have to set the dye with a mordant--can't remember what it was that I used but it also had to be added gradually while agitating, otherwise you risk blotchiness. And then there was the rinsing to get rid of excess dye that wasn't bonded to the fibers because otherwise it woud bleed onto other stuff in the laundry (not that you'd be laundering black paper cord seats, but see above re: white golf pants).

Pain in the NECK, in other words.

Maybe aniline dyes would work better, I dunno. I used them once on wood but it was a long time ago and I don't remember that process. I don't think it was as involved as fabric dyeing, though.

Ditto on India ink. I used it on a chair once and it took weeks and weeks to stabilize and i think in the end I had to wax the piece to really seal it.

Cool factory picture :)
Thats a cool factory picture, I will bring it to work next time and show it, perhaps they recognize some of them.
Just i brief comment on the black cord;
We ship black cord from the factory to our US shop, perhaps you can order from the us shop.
The black cord is stiffer, and a little more rougher on the fingers when you weave.
At Møller we paint the, ehhh, dont know the english word for it, the wood black, so that the bright wood dont shine throug the black cord.
As for the L-tacks, they are mostly used on the benches now, the chairs are regular thin nails (søm/stift) shot with an airgun at an angle, not 90 degrees like the L-tacks.
The Møller 78 with the red upholstery looks in great shape :) Personally I would upholster them for now :)

espen

Reupholster . . .
The "burlap" webbing is shot. Seems as if it is "cut" right at the location where it goes from the top inner frame to "seat." The fabric is actually orange. Orange. I am a big fan of orange, but not this and doesn't work in our kitchen at least not now. It will be some time before I get to working on them so maybe they will grow on me.

I doubt that I am up for a reupholstering. Is it easier than weaving? I own a staple gun. Sourcing burlappy webbing . . . a different color yet appropriate designed textile . . . cutting it. I could reuse all the other materials less the black tape.

input?

Moller US Contact Info?
Firkel,

Do you happen to have contact information for Moller US? I was going through www.jlm.dk to find the info and was unsuccessful.

Thank you.

Oh, good news!
That solves my problem. I want to use black on my first attempt. I do have roll of black i picked up in Chinatown a while back. It is craft woven wire wicker so not the same as for chairs. (Similar?) I also have a roll of natural and did a tint test with aniline dispersed in alcohol to avoid any swelling. Also did a few tests with India ink. I have a few different brands. BlackCat brand is nice and warm, not purple. Took the purple out of the aniline black with a few drops of brown.
Letting them air cure at the moment. Would be a total pain in the pants, so good to hear it will be available.

Any time i have used iron sulfate on woodworking projects it has needed a spring thunderstorm amount of rinsing after the color is achieved to prevent the 'iron content' from leaching later. (will turn sweaty pants an unsightly orange).

The cord i have is similar to this...
(it feels like it has a sealer/coating. Would not like it for a chair but the natural is un-coated)
http://www.weddingsbypritchard.com/Wired-paper-cord-BLACK-2l...

Rockland,
I have seen that paper-wrapped wire stuff. I think it might be hard to weave in the Danish pattern. Seems like it would, anyway. I also wonder how the wire would wear against the paper from the inside when sat upon, especially where the cord is also wearing against wood---like along the inside of the front rail. That's where it always starts to fail and I have a feeling wire would hasten the process, maybe?

Long, but pricing on UK Unlaced Black cord
The third writing of this post. I am concerned that I am not doing the right thing, but in this day and age . . .

Email from UK Supplier:

Thank you for your enquiry. We do ship materials to the US, but unfortunately the cost of transport can be very high so is usually only worthwhile if the amount ordered is large. For example the cost of sending two reels of black Danish cord to the US would be £62, four rolls would be £91.

However, as an export outside of the EU we can send the materials VAT free, this would mean that a bobbin would cost £58.34 instead of the VAT inclusive price of £70.

I understand that Jim Widess will be stocking black cord soon, so it may be worth contacting him, transportation should be considerably less expensive!

Email from Jim Widess:

Dana, I will only be getting Unlaced Black Danish Cord. I don't believe Laced is made in Black - only unlaced.

I hope this does not cause problems for Jim.

This means for me:

A roll/reel is enough for four to five chairs according to UK website. Website uses COIL and this email uses both reel and roll. I assume (at my own peril) that they are synonymous.

Roll/reel/coil cost and shipping per - £62 = $96
£58.34 = $90
£91 = $140

So, my singular purchase results in $186 which is $46.50 per chair.
Me plus one, $276 which is $39 per chair.
Me plus three, $456 which is $28.50 per chair

All this based on the numbers provided. If there was interest, I would broker and would not up charge on the shipping from CT to elsewhere - just the exact charge per USPS or whatever service you would like. I think we should split the UK shipping evenly. I cannot estimate if there are more than 4 coils as shipping data is not provided. I can accept paypal.

I wrote an email back and clarified that he is using roll/reel/coil synonymously (is that a word?)

Let me know.

If it helps, I am a public school math teacher (so, you can verify employment and location if needed to feel comfortable) and am a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy if that means anything to anyone regarding integrity.

I'd do it but I
weave seats for other people and so far I have never had a request for black cord. I can't afford to invest in stocking it when it not be used for a long time. If it becomes available in the US at a reasonable cost and with domestic shipping rates, then I'll probably go for it, even if it's just to redo my own Møllers.

For now, I'll have to pass, but thanks for researching it and doing all the math!

I would, but
I haven't kept notes on this and I have a terrible memory when it comes to math. I think you may be right about 4 lbs being enough for 3 chairs. As for the 20 lb spool---I bought two of those awhile back and have done 14 chairs so far and have enough for a few more so you're about right on that--17, maybe?

Era: make that 18 chairs (i forgot about some CH23s) with enough left for at least two more, maybe three.

I missed . . .
. . . somehow, missed your post MidCenturyBeehive. I did find your blog (assumption). Nice work. At this point, since others have not shown interest, at $40 per chair and your need for another participant, I will be waiting for Jim Widess' price point and then decide natural or black. If he is unable to source the black prior to July, I will more than likely go with natural and get to work on these over the summer months.

Again, to everyone, thank you for all of the advice, information, education and openness.

Warm regards,

Dana (and Plato)

Thanks
I will also let you know if I go ahead and purchase either way so that you have notice. I will post here a week or so ahead of time.