TL
18-Jul-06
How to tell Fake from Real
without getting into the debate about WHY buy an authorized reissue vs a knock off, does anyone have resources for HOW to tell one from the other? Specifically with the Eames Lounge. A millions copies made - are there characteristics besides the HM label that differentiate? Any sure fire ways to know before purchasing?
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
Hmmm...
> Any sure fire ways to know before purchasing?

Well, the sure-fire way would be to have a manifest showing the chain of ownership, and the original purchase reciept.
posted by ChrisG
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
Where is the value?
It's an interesting debate as to where the value is held when the "copy" is of an equal (and occasionally, higher) qulaity to the "original" ...
posted by Trommel
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
When copies are superior to the original...
That raises an interesting question: Are there cases where a reproduction is superior to the original?
posted by Stockton
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
Corbusier LC2 and LC3 sofas and chairs
...Immediately spring to mind. There are many "knockoffs" of better construction and materials than the Cassina authorized versions...
posted by decoboy
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
No no no....
Okay... I understand that there are many questions about repros vs reissues. My question is more about... how does the average person (without being a seasoned collector) figure out if the lounge chair in the flea market (or on Ebay) is an actual Eames chair, or a plycraft, or one of the myriad other copies. Did ALL the Herman Miller lounge chairs have the five star base? Were ALL the HM chairs upholstered in leather? was pleather ever offered? These are the kinds of tips I'm interested in. (and if there are resources I'd love to find them)
Whether a repro is better constructed than the original is an entirely different question.
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
18-Jul-06
Eames repros
Plycraft lounge chairs are definitely NOT superior in quality to the Eames Lounge Chair.
posted by Bruce316
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
a simple answer
know your shit. sorry to be crass, but do your research and know every detail. that's how most people get good deals. know what an item is when others don't. and the only way to do it is to know. look at as many detailed photographs and read about your item of interest. there is no such thing as an authenticity radar.
posted by whitespike
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
^^ Crass or not, a good...
^^
Crass or not, a good answer.

I for one never spend more than five hundred dollars for anything I see online, no matter how sure I am it's authentic... the bottom line is, unless you're looking at the piece in person, documents can be faked, closeup photos of labels can be from different pieces... it's a crap shoot.

As far as buying in person goes, know your stuff- that simple.

As far as quality goes, are you concerned with beautiful design and durbaility/usability or beautiful design and a label? If I wanted, say, an Eames lounger and I found an Authentic in terrible shape for a thousand and a high-end knock-off in like-new condition for 500... I'd go with the knock-off.
posted by decoboy
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
Sounds like
nobody (so far) is able to specify a few definite details that would identify an Eames lounger from "the competition." I'm no expert; isn't the five-star base always found on the HM product (and may be on some copies as well) ? What about upholstery materials ? Any reliable labelling on the HM ?
posted by SDR
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
whitespike is right
there is no such thing as authenticity radar; your own judgment counts. It might take a while to be a collector, but as i am concerned 40% of what i buy is mentionned vintage authentic but infact happens to be knockoffs or reissues or in the manner of. Do not worry that much about it, even auction certified items can be
sold as original but are just copies.
One other thing, if you want to collect true vintage items you have to combine both the detective and the hunter's skills.
The only difference is, that when white siberian tigers will be totally extinguished, you won't go hunting fake ones, this makes a difference with design items: billions of them are design chimeres. Good luck.
posted by designite
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
Eames vs. Plycraft & Selig
So far I've bought four Eames lounge chair knockoffs at auction, labeled either Plycraft or Selig or not labeled at all. I've also seen the real thing in shops.

The differences are easy to spot. The knockoffs all have screws and bolts showing on the outside. The armrests are either a single horizontal platform or they have the curved shape of the Eames armrests but are upholstered by just wrapping the leather around to the underside (no welt and no separate piece around the edge).

I think the ottoman is smaller too, but the other differences are so easy to spot that I have never bothered to compare dimensions on the ottomans. I don't even look at the bases, either, though there are differences there.

I've looked at a lot of other knockoffs of various iconic pieces and I've found that the differences are mostly very obvious once you know what to look for. A leg will have a different taper, hardware will show, proportions will be different, upholstery details will differ.

That Hans Wegner folding chair with the woven rattan seat and back has been widely copied. Some were made in Yugoslavia and most done with fiber rush or cord (not rattan) and all with slightly different shaping of the edges of the frames and the handles on the seat. The wood is rarely as nice Wegner's and the finish is usually a glossy lacquer or varnish, not oil.

Just look carefully and pay attention and pretty soon you'll know the real thing well enough to spot the fakes.

Here are a few photos of my chairs:

http://home.comcast.net/~klm3/jans1.jpg

That is a Plycraft chair with the cheap platform armrests. I reupholstered the chair but didn't change their design. Notice the kind of cheese base, too. And visible screws and bolts on the sides.

Next is a Selig chair that I have since reupholstered. It has a heavier base that looks nicer but still has the exposed bolts. Note the really cheezy looking armrests! I redid them in the style of the Eames chair (see the last photo, which is the real thing and which I do not own...yet).

http://home.comcast.net/~klm3/selig1a.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~klm3/selig1arm.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~klm3/whiteeames.jpg
posted by spanky
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
and the award goes to..SPANKY!
Thanks so much spanky. I've noticed some of the bolts on some chair arms. I figured some of them might amount to poor repair jobs. The edging around the armrests is a great help, as are the different base styles. With SO MANY Eames imitators out there its hard to know what you're looking at...especially on the web. I've requested the lounge chair book from my library but they havent obtained a copy yet. In the meantime I've been going back over old posts here.
It is very helpful and important to accurately know what you're dealing with. As example - a Plycraft was listed on a local message board as an Eames. When it was pointed out to the seller he dramatically dropped the price. (ethics are not dead)
When I first got into modern design I had NO idea which way was up - the collective experience of this community/message board far supersedes the knowledge I will get just reading books and websites, and I'm really grateful for that.
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
Ikea Eames?
I found this old article about Eames knock-offs. It says there was an Ikea version of the LCW/DCW. Has anyone seen this chair? Pictures?
http://www.citypaper.net/articles/2004-02-26/cover7.shtml
posted by whos that?
 [edit]
 
19-Jul-06
i may be wrong but
it seems you don't have as much to worry about when buying vintage knock-offs. so many are so far from original looking it is easy to decifer. i have never personally seen a vintage knock-off that looks even close. the new ones are what's scary. i know my stuff, but i found a copy in new orleans that was manufactured in the last 10 years. i had to ask the store owner if it was herman miller.
posted by whitespike
 [edit]
 
24-Jul-06
No Eames Lounge Has A Tilt Mechanism
That's the easiest way... squat down and look for the spring tilt doohickey thing on the bottom.

If it's there-then it isn't a genuine.
posted by yuki
 [edit]
 
27-Jul-06
The arms give it away?
Found this post on a design blog about spotting the 670 in Adam Sandler's new movie Click. The author says he recognized the chair by the arms... but take a closer look at the pics. lol.
http://design.weblogsinc.com/2006/06/27/the-eames-lounge-ch/...
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
27-Jul-06
Ha!
That's so funny!

That's the same chair I have, by the way. My current one, I mean.
posted by spanky
 [edit]
 
27-Jul-06
The Aarnio ball chair is ...
The Aarnio ball chair is very annoying and the Eames chaise . I would never buy these now , because of all the copies. Generally the price tells the story or real vs fakes , but snakes try to pass off copies at high prices sometimes......beware
Know your mod
posted by John B
 [edit]
 
14-Aug-06
Please tell me who sells them!
"Corbusier LC2 and LC3 sofas and chairs
...Immediately spring to mind. There are many "knockoffs" of better construction and materials than the Cassina authorized versions..."
posted by decoboy

I don't think that Cassina's quality mathes their prices as I've written in this Forum before.
And they're not interested at all to supply their customers with new better parts than they delivered from the beginning. It's cheaper to buy a new LC2 than to buy new cushions for an old one.
And it's much cheaper to buy a complete new LC2 armchair from another manufacturer than to buy just the covers from Cassina. If they're selling them at all.
I asked their authorised dealer in Stockholm for the price on covers for my old armchairs and haven't got any answer yet - after three months!
So I would surely like to know who makes the "knockoffs" that you are refering to.
Tthank you.

posted by lege.artis
 [edit]
 
15-Aug-06
Eames majik
its funny to read this stuff, you know why? A lot of brain power goes into figuring out....how can one buy a fake piece of functional art to look so close to the real deal? Why do you care? If your buying a fake, buy it because it is a fake and you don't mind that it is fake for better or worse, don't buy it to play Tom Foolery with yourself and your guests. Why by something fake to be looked upon as real? A fake piece trying to look real, is still a fake no matter how you slice it. The only person your fooling is your friends. Your not fooling yourself because you know its fake either way.

This sounds like blabber but its a point.



posted by Shooter
 [edit]
 
15-Aug-06
oh.
To answer your question.

When in doubt, don't buy it unless your 100% sure your going to happy with your purchase, bottom line.

Otherwise, buy new. Let yourself do the "Vintaging."

One can spend all day spouting out construction details To an Eames Lounger down to the fiber and the cow it came off of. Either way, its the Eye of the beholder that has to live with it.

I mean what do you want us to say? There are good ripoffs out there as much as con artists turning tricks.

Get a magnified glass and a fine toothed comb and scrutinize it till you talk yourself out of buying it and move on.
posted by Shooter
 [edit]
 
15-Aug-06
Shooter
I originally posted this question because i hadnt had a lot of experience with the 670 and I wanted to know some tips about purchasing a used one. For example - $500 is a heck of a price for an authentic 670, but in the higher range for a Plycraft version. Something like the tilt mechanism is a great way to know you're dealing with a vintage fake - especially if you havent gotten too close to an authentic Eames chair.
In the end I bought a Plycraft version because it does look nice, was cheap, and is comfortable. And I would never attempt to 'pass' it for the real thing. Thats just deceptive, and will only bring bad karma. :-D
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
16-Aug-06
hire a consultant
If you enjoy finding the answers yourself, you will find it yourself. And you will realize that the imperfect knowledge of an expert is hard to come by. The alternative is to buy the imperfect knowledge from the experts for 20 - 30% and oila you have the answers, the thing itself and all that time you would have spent asking and searching.
posted by room606
 [edit]
 
16-Aug-06
KARMA.......please give it up!
hey everybody in the world, please stop using "karma" as your new age buzz word to justify or not justify your actions.
if you take a modernist point of view, personal example in action is more a free will choice along with it's consequences. we need to stop atatching "karma", or any religious buzzwords to our actions. i'm sick of it! how the hell did karl rove make it to designaddict!
i am both my actions and thoughts.......and are you!
karma along with karl roveism........RIP

with all due respect, and sorry in advance.
posted by mario
 [edit]
 
18-Aug-06
maybe Im missing something
How is Karl Rove connected to karma?
posted by whos that?
 [edit]
 
19-Aug-06
Mario - I'll see your rant, and raise you an explanation
Some notes about your posting on karma.

1) Im not sure Karl Rove has anything to do with karma, or would even know what the word means.

2) the english language is a broad and complex thing. Specific words are chosen to most adequately convey an idea or concept.

3) Please take the time to research something before blindly ranting away about it. In this case both Karl Rove AND karma.

The idea of karma can best be expressed by the first stanza of the Dhammapada (a book of Buddhist teaching) It simply states: If one speaks or acts with a corrupt mind, suffering follows.

And yes, it is a religious concept, but it is hardly new age. It is also misguided to think of Buddhism as a religion in the same manner as Catholocism or Islam. While Buddhism has deities and demons, its main focus is on the individual and his/her actions. There is no punishment brought down from an angry god - only the suffering caused by misdeed. It is not punishment - only cause and effect- seemingly in line with your 'modernist pov'.

To speak of someone as having bad karma doesnt mean that some unseen GOD will punish them. Karma is the internalization of bad deeds. Example:

" A man accidentally kills a person. He does not tell anyone. The guilt of his action causes him stress. The stress causes him to have a heart attack."

Of course this is an extreme example. Perhaps if I put it in an old fashioned term "what goes around comes around"...thats karma, more or less.

As a general adherent of Bhuddist tenets I did take offense at your comment. Your apology is accepted, in advance.
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
20-Aug-06
good explaination/defence!
very well articulated points. i now appreciate your point of view, thank you. you must forgive us satanists as we sometimes have a need to kick up the dust a little. i trust no harm was done.

please know i have sufficient insurance in the case we may have a karma crash in the future.

happiness everywhere!
posted by mario
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
Is this the real thing?
I found a Eames lounge chair seat without the base. It looks like a fake but I would like the forum's expertise.

And by the way, how much is the base for the chair when bought separately?


posted by jef180 (FIN)
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
This thread may highlight...
This thread may highlight that Karl Rove might have much to do with karma, even though he may not know what the word means.
posted by hudsonhonu (USA)
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
If you remove the cushions...
If you remove the cushions and take a picture of the cushion backs as well as the clips that hold the cushions to the shells, a lot of people on here will imediately be able to identify it as a knock off or not.

My first reaction to the photos is that the armrests look wrong, the shells look too thick and are not rounded off on the edge.

posted by H.moon (UK)
edited on 15-Feb-10 07:32 PM  [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
These old threads are a hoot!
These old threads are a hoot!
posted by WoofWoof (USA)
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
A few images more
Hi everybody and thank you for the replies. Obviously this 4 year old thread brought back memories for some people. I'll add a few more images to see if we can shed some light on the origin.

I haven't bought the chair yet and these are the seller's photos. Just trying to make up my mind.


posted by jef180 (FIN)
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
It's weird-
The leather looks much newer than the wood and yes,the armrests are way too thick.I must say,the shells look kinda correct to me.
posted by Tulipman
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
Looks like a recent production in dark cherry to me...
But I wouldn't take my word for it.

You're welcome.

I guess.
posted by Lunchbox (USA)
 [edit]
 
15-Feb-10
Yes,I agree
Cherry indeed,but it makes you wonder how a base gets separated?
posted by Tulipman
 [edit]
 
16-Feb-10
Full Circle
Wow... hard to imagine that was me writing the initial post way back when.

As to the new chair in question, absolutely fake. A local knock-off store has this copy. At a glance it is a decent copy in terms of most details, but the proportions are wrong, the leather is wrong, and the woodgrain is wrong. And my guess would be the base is gone because that's the biggest give-a-way on this copy.

The wood is not actually cherry - it is ash with a cherry stain. Cherry tends to much tighter grain, with very little texture. And the new production HermanMiller/Vitra chairs are almost glass smooth, with no physical wood texture.

Armrests are way too thick, and the photo of the screws shows them at the wrong angle - going perpendicular into the underside of the pads, vs at a diagonal on the authentic chairs.

And almost missed it in the photos, but if you look closely there is a metal brace tucked under the armrests holding the back shell to the base.

The chair below shows the same coarse grained wood, the same thick armrests, and the faux base - and you can see why it's missing...


posted by LuciferSum (USA)
 [edit]
 
16-Feb-10
Stay away.
It's fake. And not cherry. Maybe ash with a cherry colored stain.

*edit* sorry LuciferSum, I should read what others say before injecting my (redundant) opinion.


posted by Pegboard Modern (USA)
edited on 16-Feb-10 06:37 AM  [edit]
 
16-Feb-10
Fake it is then...
I didn't get the photos of the the screws.
posted by Lunchbox (USA)
 [edit]
 
16-Feb-10
Real ones
Feel like bags of sand.
posted by woodywood (USA)
 [edit]
 
16-Feb-10
Thank you!
Thank you all for your expertise. I will keep my distance on this one and save my money for the real thing.

I hope this helps others in determining Eames authenticity as well.
posted by jef180 (FIN)
 [edit]
 
22-Feb-10
Material & Design = FEEL
hmmm....
Haven't posted much recently, but to those who know me, I don't buy retail or wholesale. This, of course, invites risk.

There are some good points in this thread. The reality is that you have to be smarter than the person you are buying from. They call it asymmetric information. But that is just fancy talk for knowing more than the other person.

That said, the difference between fake and authentic usually comes down to two things, Material and design.

Material:
When Arne designed a chair, he did not skimp on material. The solid aluminum base (will not rust, is not chrome so will not peel). The fact that you can "spin" in an egg chair at least 10 times without touching the ground. If there is wood, what type is it? Pine = crap in most instances. redwood? Cherry? walnut? Now we are talking.
FABRIC: An original will have the touch. All wool? good! All polyester? good luck.
That said, some materials chosen 50 years ago ended up not holding up to the test of time. Specifically with modern furniture and filling. Basically, if you find a chair that has a crusty, crispy filling, it "feels" cheap. It can also be an indicator of authenticity.
Design:
I laughed at the Ikea knock off of the LCW. That is ridiculous! Not even close.
Do you feel comfortable in it? Is the seat height right? Don't forget, designers were focused on conforming the chair to human form, not conforming the human to the chair. A big give away.
Patina/age:
Last but not least. An older wood will have a patina. Even the bent plywood. The fabric will show wear.

Last but not least....READ....the internet is crap. Everyone borrows from everyone else. There is this thing called a library. There are also pamphlets/literature.

I will now step off the box...sorry for the rant.
I will now step down....sorry for the rant.
posted by ngised
 [edit]
 
22-Feb-10
IKEA?
LCW?
posted by woodywood (USA)
 [edit]
 
23-Feb-10
jef your chair is authentic
i can see a hint of a zipper hiding behind the leather piping. fakes would just staple the piping to the leather. i have had a fake and sat on the real one. i see no distinct difference, they're all comfortable. but if you have that tendency to recline to relax, go with a repro because the real one does not recline. what scares me nowadays are the fakes made in china, they have copied the original up to the minute detail, the only difference is the leather and cushion. just my 2 cents.
posted by maniqz
 [edit]
 
23-Feb-10
oops!
sorry jef it's a fake. didn't see the screws.
posted by maniqz
 [edit]
 
23-Feb-10
Yea, I still wanna see the...
Yea, I still wanna see the Ikea LCWs! Particleboard DMCs? HA!
posted by whitespike (USA)
 [edit]
 
26-Jul-10
The wood
A real eames lounge 670 has 7 layers of wood, it has never changed over the years
i counted yours it has 8, im sorry this isnt a herman miller version, also the armrests are far to thick.
posted by schef MCM
 [edit]
 
26-Jul-10
not exactly

Herman Miller used 5 layers of plywood on the early rosewood chairs. Newer HM production use 7 layers.

This chair however is still a fake.
posted by the_beloved (US/CAN)
 [edit]
 
26-Jul-10
All plywood
has an odd number of layers -- 3,5,7,9 etc. This is the only way for the two outer layers to have grain running in the same direction.
posted by SDR (USA)
 [edit]
 
26-Jul-10

The lounge chair used to be available in naugahyde and fabric as well, at least the original HM licensed European version was.
posted by Yago7
edited on 26-Jul-10 11:34 AM  [edit]
 
31-Jul-10
Plycraft or Eames?
I'm selling this for $200 tomorrow morning. I usually collect and sell electronics. I'm out of my league here. I believe it's a Plycraft. It does have the 5 star base on the chair. It at one time had a label on the bottom that has since been removed. It has a tilt mechanism. I believe. The ottoman base has 4 star. Help dudes! It's a plycraft right?

posted by junkharvest
edited on 31-Jul-10 05:13 AM  [edit]
 
31-Jul-10
You're selling the lounge?
and not the gawdawful sofa? Really? Wow!
posted by Olive (USA)
 [edit]
 
04-Aug-10
The ottoman
I'm interested in an Eames chair and ottoman now and trying to gather all the information I can in order to prove its authenticity (or lack thereof). I know the chair is put together with clips, no visible screws or bolts anywhere. This does apply to the ottoman as well, correct? Does anyone have a picture of an authentic clip? Thanks for any information.
posted by bog360
 [edit]
 
04-Aug-10
selling lounge
If your serious on selling how can you be reached
posted by ricbear
 [edit]
 
04-Aug-10
Olive, you crack me up.
And Junkharvester, dump the fake Eames chair AND the couch.
posted by poach
 [edit]
 
07-Aug-10
FYI
The latest versions have 7 layers and older versions have 5 layers. Not sure of the actual time frame on when that changed--mine is from 1996 and has 5 layers.
posted by nautipuss
 [edit]
 
23-Oct-10
Good fake?
I'm sure I will offend many with my question. I love many of they mid-c style, but *I* don't need for pieces to be originals. Can any one point me to reasonably priced and quality? I was looking at the Herman Miller Eames Lounge and Ottoman Black Leather and Cherry shell and was looking for the Black Leather Barcelona Chair and Ottoman. Can any one provide with sources that at least good and reasonable cost product?
posted by Damon-Eugene
 [edit]
 
24-Oct-10
Good fakes.
Charlton made a decent copy of the Eames Lounge, but it's been out of production for many years so it's not very easy to find. Some of the newer Chinese knockoffs are getting quite good, too, although they're priced accordingly: $1000-$1500 or so.

Alphaville's Barcelona chair is good and currently available.
posted by fastfwd (USA)
 [edit]
 
24-Oct-10
Gargage
The answer to the question is no. At least regarding the Eames Lounge & Ottoman. I've seen dozens and dozens of copies and they are all garbage. Not for lack of trying, it's just a complicated chair to make.

The best one I saw was a recent Chinese copy - and from the ad on craigslist I SWORE it was real. From the grainy little picture all the proportions appeared correct, the wood looked okay.

And that's really the problem - the first glances look okay. It's the close ups that give it away. It took all of 2 seconds looking at the chair in person to know it was bad. The leather was crappy, the texture was bad. The wood wasn't cherry - it was ash veneer with reddish stain gobbed on it. The base was wrong.

In all, the chair could have passed for a movie prop, but for something to use every day and actually enjoy?

If you're going to spend 1500$ on a copy you might as well chip in 500 more and get a decent used original. And I say this solely on quality.
posted by LuciferSum (USA)
 [edit]
 
24-Oct-10
Agree
If you can "afford" to spend $1500 on a knock-off, then you can "afford" to spend a few hundred more for authentic (new or vintage).
posted by woodywood (USA)
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
Don't support makers of fakes
There are so many companies now which make copies of classic
Furniture items, but the real point is that these companies are stealing the intellectual property of the original designers and destroying the integrity of the original object by making inferior products.

Making fakes of designer furniture is unethical and people who support this industry should know that they are also ripping off designers. Whether it's a knockoff handbag, perfume or chair, we should do our best to encourage others not to take part in this practice.

In Australian major cities the fake eames lounge and arco lamp are now ubiquitous in display apartments, and one quick look is all it takes to see that the quality of the finish reveals a lack of craftsmanship. Fakes are generally made of substandard materials, many of the chairs are lighter and the timbers used are often simply stained to imitate the look of more expensive timbers. But I know that most on the forum do not support fakes, but these fakes are making it harder for emerging collectors to identify original designs. Also, people who buy the fakes don't get to experience the quality of the original object.

What you don't get with a fake is a link to the history of an object. I recently bought a Robin Day 658 lounge chair and i love the story behind the chair and its connection with design history, etc.

posted by tick
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
I would never....
encourage anybody to buy anything else but an original, but...(and I have said this many times on this forum) your statement: "but the real point is that these companies are stealing the intellectual property of the original designers...is not correct. There are numerous designs including many of those discussed on this forum that are in the public domain. To suggest otherwise is just not knowing international laws and conventions. To say that:...Making fakes of designer furniture is unethical and people who support this industry should know that they are also ripping off designers...is simply inventing unexisting ethical standards. There is nothing unethical about copying a design that is not protected anymore under the different legislations on intellectual property. Intellectual property is an invention of the legislators, not an ethical or moral question and the legislators have made laws that make copies legal when the period of protection of a particular design has expired.
posted by koen (CA)
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
Fakes and ethics part 2
I am aware of copyright laws and that many midcentury designs are
no longer protected by such copyright, and therefore they are open to copying by companies, but many ripoffs are still very much protected by copyright and the market for these fakes is driven by the consumer. And just because something is out of copyright, is that a good enough reason to copy a designer's work?

I believe that it is very much a question of ethics when someone decides to ripoff a designer's IP in order to make a quick buck. A recent batch of fake Kartell floating around Australia is a a case in point. Ethics also come into play when fakes are sold as originals to newbie collectors. This situation happens frequently in online auctions.

There is of course a big difference in a re- edition made under license vs. a crappy copy. Fakes are not good for collectors and bad fakes in particular are an insult to the integrity of the original design. I fail to see how stealing someones intellectual property is ethical, but in a world littered with fake Gucci, Alessi, Starck, etc, I think it's worth having this discussion.
posted by tick
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
what fake 'Kartell' tick?
what fake 'Kartell' tick?

if you are talking about the magazine holders they've been around for awhile
posted by Ball (AUS)
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
...and above and beyond!
...and above and beyond! I just couldn't put my arse on anything but the original no matter how long it took me to save the money but then that's in my opinion

It took me 15 years to buy my ball chair and nearly the same to buy my submariner. And should shit-hit-the-fan I can get my money back reselling them
posted by Ball (AUS)
 [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
The real deal
I have seen knockoffs of the Take lamp and crappy knockoffs of Starck plastic chairs. I couldn't agree more about saving up to buy the real deal. After all, we are just caretakers of this stuff and having an opportunity to restore or look after these pieces can really give so much pleasure.

At the end of the day we all have to make choices and it's simply my choice to only buy original pieces. It's good for the planet, good for the designer and good for collectors.

On that note I will let everyone get back to talking about the original topic of this thread, how to tell fake from real.

Cheers,
Tick.

P.S. BTW Ball I take my hat off to you because 15 years is real commitment, but I know that it's worth every cent. Enjoy!
posted by tick
edited on 25-Oct-10 11:39 AM  [edit]
 
25-Oct-10
thanks tick i couldn't...
thanks tick

i couldn't agree more with you....but i'm not so green-minded as i probably should be

the caretaker comment is interesting because if anything else my daughters can say 'well at least my dad knew how to invest'

i know the starcks and the take's you are talking about...forgot about those

but we're all different...but as i said before this forum is for like minded design followers/participators
posted by Ball (AUS)
 [edit]
 
19-Mar-11
unenlighted arrogance,
but nobody cares about the story of a chair. I have a story, its called the production cost to mark up value on a herman miller chair, lets see how we do

(2) 8x10 sheets of single ply (aka skatebard wood)
() $ 11.00 the veneer 22.00
glue, 2.00 ,
Edleman leather about 100.00
hardware 50.00
cushions 30.00
shipping 50.00
veneer 30.00
labor(5)hrs x 25 125.00

the woods pressed cut and by machine lathes. ( the santos rosewood was cheap to supply back in the day thats why now its considered rare no thanks to Herman Miller


Its not art its just a cool chair that people want.
posted by rsa110
 [edit]
 
20-Mar-11
What's your point, rsa110?
If price were determined only by time-and-materials cost, a turbo Porsche would cost about the same as a Buick, and the lightest bicycles would also be the cheapest.
posted by fastfwd (USA)
 [edit]
 
20-Mar-11
There are fakes and there...
There are fakes and there are knock-offs. There is a difference. A fake is a product that is being sold as something other than what it is whether it be furniture, purses, shoes, etc. An example would be someone selling a Burke pedastal table as a Sarineen or someone selling copies of Burberry purses as the original thing. A knock-off is a product designed after another product but not trying to sell itself as the product it is designed after. For example, selling a Burke pedastal table as a Burke table is not a selling a fake. The person is making sure that the person knows it is not an original Sarineen but a knock-off.

Personally, I saved my money for the original tulip table, but they are alot more expensive and someone on an extremely tight budget might go for the Burke. Not everyone can afford an authentic Sarineen table. Does that mean that they should just give up hope of ever having any mid-century modern furniture? I think people should buy what they can afford. I don't want to see people collapsing into debt to buy furniture they can't afford because someone else has made them feel scum for buying a knock-off.
posted by Cloudburst2000
 [edit]
 
11-Apr-11
George Mulhauser plycraft chair
I wanted to know what I have. I picked up the chair from a tag sale.
Its 5 layers of plywood, 5 legs and rounded arm rests.

Hope you can all help

(edited by DA - no sales on the forum - go to the Radar please)
http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/atq/2316974991.html
posted by jbened20
 [edit]
 

Rauminhalt

An interactive place to share your questions and reflections about
modern & post-modern design.

advertising