More about Nelson Clocks 2
The other thread is getting so long that it's getting hard to upload it.

My Bitossi/Nelson/Meridian clock arrived today. Here's a snap.

Also, I took a snap of an area rug that I took out of storage and shampooed. It even looks nice on my oatmeal carpet and if I ever get a sofa, it'll go on it.


You can read the first thread 'Nelson eye clock 1' here:
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm?9...

LRF, about the Knoll table
It has perminent rings and the vaneer is a bit raised. Dare I lightly sand it....and try to refinish it? Or should I leave it alone and enjoy it as is?

I got it on eBay quite cheaply.

Here it is
I guess it's solid walnut....not veneered!

Any reason
not to strip the finish off ? I would think that's the way to get most if not all of the rings out -- and just sanding the present finish will likely rub through to bare wood anyway, in spots (you mentioned raised areas, probably water-related) which will make getting an even and consistent finish impossible -- won't it ?

Strip, sand with the grain as necessary, and refinish -- that's the standard procedure. A cabinet shop with a widebelt sanding machine could take any amount of wood off until stains are gone.

Merry Christmas ! SDR

Maybe
Did they ever ever make these tables with a flat chrome leg base, or even chrome X style legs?
----------------------------------
Perhaps....Flo made scads of really cool tables for all sorts of installations, and they were mostly put into regular production.

I strongly suggest you buy the wonderful Knoll book from Schiffer...expensive, but it has everything and the photographs are really nifty.

barry - I'd try using Howard...
barry - I'd try using Howard Restor-a-finish polish (neutral color) and some super fine steel wool before refinishing. I've had good luck with removing rings and every other mar known to man with that combo. If they're too deep, you're only set back $7

3 clocks from All World
I just ordered:
$75.00 Eye Clock
$42.00 Kite Clock
$42.00 Steering Wheel Clock
------
$159.00
plus postage $45.00

Hopefully they will be nifty, too.

I just ordered: $75.00 Eye...
I just ordered:
$75.00 Eye Clock
$42.00 Kite Clock
$42.00 Steering Wheel Clock
------
$159.00
plus postage $45.00

such a good deal from those people
i had to get the rip from
White and pay 125 for the kite 100 for the steering wheel and 150. for the eye clock so you did good my friend....

I will, but I doubt they have 'em
I will but I doubt they have 'em....

By the way,,,,second hand on Meridian's?
By the way, on the Bitossi clock at the top of this thread, was a second originally on it?

I can't figure it out anymore.

All World clocks
Eye clock has a second hand and the Ball clock does not, those are the two I have from All World.

i just ordered three sets...
i just ordered three sets of Hands for various clocks from Vitra and the Vitra eye clock does have the 2nd hand as the kite, nothing else does, The lady said as time goes by(pun on words) and people are replaceing the mechanisms all the time, some mechanisms do not support the second hand, while others do.
a interesting note all the clocks that i bought from white and All world say the quartz movements were made in America, so we are leading the world in quartz movements yea!! so that makes your clocks guys and gals 60 percent made in America as that is the heart of the clock,
I did buy a new Howard miller clock for my little boys room (why i have no idea when i have 100 ) but in big embossed plastic it said made in China,
I am beginning to think that these all world furniture clocks really and truly were the best deal that any of us have come across in a long time, just not a cheap knock off,
I have had the Vitra side by side
and not even a experts could tell the difference just a different factory thats all. with American parts
HELL of A DEAL.

LuciferSum
no more fake then the vitra repoductions that you say you have saved up for.
want a original for your private museum collection? go to wright20 auction or ebay and bid on one.
those are the only originals out there as any other ones including the Howard Millers reissued would be a
fake in your eyes.
It seems like the rest of us have had a damn good time reading and contributing to this thread and buying these fake clocks,for pennies on the dollar and are enjoying the fakes right now on our respective walls. and you know what Lucifersum? I bet not one of us gives a flying F***.

Whatever you need to tell yourself
I guess some of us care about more than money. And some of us are willing to live without those things we can't afford. (or save up for them) Pennies on the dollar or good deals - your clocks are still fake. And I'm willing to take Mrs. Nelson's word about which is an authentic piece long before I'm willing to take yours LRF.

what ever Lucifersum ...
what ever Lucifersum floats your boat and makes you happy?
do you think the Vitra clocks are green approved ? I would not want anything on my wall that is not.... Is any of the wood endangered? you need to find out as the eye clock looks like endangered teak to me, Its only a clock pal not life or death,

As far as Mrs Nelson who cares about what she says she is getting 1 buck a clock so she is happy in Shady Acres

any thing that is reissued is what it is reissued am i gonna have to get Barry to give you a lesson on the correct terms of reissued pieces.

SDR the whole eco green ...
SDR the whole eco green has me totally confused..
I believe that we all have a responsibility to be prudent with the things that we could do to save the planet and the the O zone, but i am sorry we can only do so much and some have no desire to do nothing, as that is there belief,]
as far as the nelson clocks that was more tongue and cheek speaking..... as i have no doubt that any thing that was produced prior to the enlightenment of damage to the ozone was environmentally safe, cause so many harm ful materials were used in the Eames Era, and that is the main reason that Herman miller was the first to sign on as a green company. as they knew it was a good sound move for their company

url
What's the website address for All World?

LuciferSum...
Sure, I would like to have an original Nelson clock...who wouldn't? But I'm not rolling in the dough here. I have funds set aside where I save up for certain items that I want. I'm currently saving up for a Nelson spindle clock. I absolutely love them. I asked for one of the All Around The World knock-offs for Christmas from my dad. They don't carry the spindle clock last I checked so he'll probably get me the eye clock which is my second favorite Nelson clock. I won't actually get the clock until late January as I won't be traveling home until then. My sister is due then, and I couldn't afford to go home for both Christmas and the baby's birth. We're having our family Christmas then. Anyhoo, I'll take a nice knock-off any day then having a bare patch of wall with nothing to hang on it. And I personally consider re-issues to be knock-offs. IMHO, the Vitra clocks ARE knock-offs as they are not originals. I think the only originals are the ones from the actual time-period they were produced in. There are only a certain number of originals left, and they can be quite expensive.

Do I see a problem owning a knock-off. No...not as long as you are happy with it. That's what counts. My parents bought me a knock-off Wegner daybed for my graduation present. It was a surprise. I wasn't expecting it, and hadn't asked for it. I was doing fine with my non-Modern college sofa. My parents knew that I was re-decorating my living room in mid-century modern around a few pieces I got after my grandmother's death. They thought that I would like the sofa since it was mid-century modern and my sofa definitely was not. Do I like the sofa though even though it's not an original. Yes, it's still a nice sofa/daybed even if it isn't a Wegner original, and my parents certainly can't afford an original. And I would never ask them to buy me one. An item does not have to be an original for the user to derive enjoyment from it.

LRF...
Actually, I'm a fine young woman ;) And I also think that it doesn't matter if it's a knock-off if you enjoy it. The daybed I have is very nice even though it's a Wegner knock-off. And it was really nice of my parents to get it for me since they're by no means rich. And I still think a Vitra is as much a knock-off as anything else. If it's not an original then it's a knock-off, IMHO.

And like you, I just had Lasik eye surgery done about 1 month ago. I decided that came before buying my spindle clock. I've always had horrid eye-sight and now I'm 20/15 in both eyes. I still sometimes forget that I don't have to reach for my glasses when I wake up each morning :D

sorry MS Cloudburst2000 did...
sorry MS Cloudburst2000 did not tend to bend your gender, Lascik is great as you can see great perhaps a nice Nelson eye clock to commemorate the occasion.
Barry always makes good points, between knock off and reissues, I am like him and have 95 percent original and 5 percent reissue or knock off, I have been collecting for so long my stuff is so old it can not help from being originals,
The clocks have been my most fun as i have collected almost 100 not all Nelson or howard miller some are the original pot metal from the 40s like the Joe Louis clock, FDR,Will Rodgers, Major Boles armature hour, and almost every cowboy clock ever made, and lots of silly kitch clocks so when we talk clocks that is my fun and passion and i know a few things about them
I also know how to fix them!!! yea

No....
more men than women post here.....

Cloudburst
One of my biggest peeves about knock-offs comes more from this issue of desire; the pervasive idea that simply because one WANTS something, one should be able to HAVE it. Except most people only want the LOOK of something - not the quality and craftsmanship (and therefore, pricetag). What most people want is the status a designer item brings. (would anyone knock off the canvas tote bags you get at the bookstore?)

Quality is important, and it takes time, money, and effort. My father and brothers are very fine carpenters. One is a stained glass artist as well. Two uncles are a painter and a designer. My grandfathers were a construction foreman and an opera singer. My own training is in sculpture and bookbinding. Creativity, knowledge of materials, and specific craft seem to run in my family: I see a very direct link between that knowledge and a high quality piece.

So there is this desire for the status and look of these iconic pieces, for which people are willing to spend money buying knockoffs. That money goes to something that can only ever be a ghost of the original. Example: A shop near wor sells a "retro ball clock" which has the standard Nelson colors: blue, orange, & green. Someone has also seen fit to add lavender and pink. The result is an atrocious approximation of a real Nelson clock. In the same way you can approximate a Jaguar by building a kit car - it doesnt mean that you HAVE a Jaguar - you have some object that only LOOKS like a Jag. Styling aside, the kit car lacks the engine, the horsepower, the inherent value (for resale, inheiritance, etc)of the real thing; all of those things that MAKE it a Jag.

Some approximations get closer than others. A friend (I previously mentioned her buying a horrible knock-off starburst clock) bought the Ball Clock from AllWorld. When she got it the dimensions were very close to the real thing. But 11 of the balls were matte finish - one was high gloss. Also, the hour hand was brown - not orange. Despite being very close, it was still an approximation. Every time someone asks about the clock she'll have a choice: be dishonest and call it a Nelson clock, or acknowledge that its a fake.

I can see the argument about decorative items not being inherently harmful. The basic function is to provide aesthetic appeal (and in this case: tell time) I offer two counters: One, the approximation can never be the real thing. No one will think the Mona Lisa in your bathroom is anything but a poster - however, a knock-off Nelson clock is meant to be dishonest. It's sole purpose is to lie about its origins. At best it's a halfway decent copy, at worst it tarnishes the brand identity of the original. Second, the money spent on a knock-off could very easily be spent towards an actual good design by a lesser known designer. There are plenty of great mid-century clocks that tell time equally as well, and can provide a similar aesthetic appeal. Just ask Aunt Flo.

however, a knock-off Nelson c...
however, a knock-off Nelson clock is meant to be dishonest. It's sole purpose is to lie about its origins. At best it's a halfway decent copy, at worst it tarnishes the brand identity of the original.

sorry but this is so radical thinking it makes my hair go white, you make good points and have always stated things the way you feel but this is off the wall who gives a shit!!!!! should we round up all the nelson clocks and have a big bonfire in Times square, ? Hell no!!! every one who bought one cause they looked good, were good quality, nice decorative clocks, We know they are not the original from Wright 20 Auction house for 700. or hight bid on Ebay with outdated electric plugs,and motors that do not work.
These are not fake Rolexs sold on 57 and 5th Ave in NYC by some Nigerians for 20 bucks!!
I know this is your issue and it is mine also, I hate cheap fake furniture, I have been blessed with a large enough bank account that i can buy the best and I do have the best from My Home to my Cars, to my furniture, No bragging here just thanking the good lord that i have been successful, but that does not mean that i want to throw money around just cause i have it,
I hate to preach but if you could have three nice clocks for 150.00 to make a nice wall assortment why not? one from Vitra is 300.00 . and i tell you pal they are the same , as i have two eyes clocks, one from Vitra one from All world, side by side you can not tell the difference!!!!!!!!, you mentioned the sweep hand, The first series did not come with the sweep hand all the new ones they sell do.
This bull crap about lieing to Joe Blow what the clock is who really cares, call it what you want call it a gift from G-D but if they are going to ostrosize you from current society cause you transgressed and bought a reproduction or less than perfect original on the wall who cares.

you always throw in you could buy a good design by a lesser known designer. why?????? maybe we dont want to buy something buy a lesser known designer maybe just like the way the Nelson clocks look and want to own one being a original or repoduction,
I have tons of clocks from the midcentury a lot of starburst clocks,
I just look at them like them and think no big deal a nice West clock, Nice Elgin, Nice Wembly,



am i wrong here folks ? if i am feel free to let me know!!!!!

LRF...which sweep hands for my Bitossi clock?
I don't which one is right....I could certainly buy a bunch of them and try them all out!

Barry

barry
on the klockit web site Number 3 is the one you want for the bitossi clock that is what i bought
I dont think it comes in white but a quick spray paint will work perfect.

Insane clock
I have probably already posted this, but here's an unmarked, super high quality heavy aluminum clock - probably Italian. It's 11 1/2" square and with a very deep carved out relief...It's great; the slightly diagnonal lines makes the clock look not quite square!

The darn second hand fell off and thanks to one of my cats, it got ruined, and it's gone now.

I don't buy...
pieces of mid-century furnishing for the status symbol. I buy what I think looks good even if it's not by a major designer. Some of my stuff is by well-known designers and some not. I'm not the type to go buy something just because it's by this or that designer. I buy what I like regardless of who designed. I don't buy things because I think people will go 'Oh, you have a piece by George Nelson.' If it happens to be by a famous designer, so be it. If not, I don't care as long as I enjoy it. And none of the people that I know outside of my architect brother-in-law know anything about designers anyway. You're acting like everyone buys these clocks for the status symbol, and that's just not true. Many people just think they look cool...much cooler than anything designed lately. If you like the look, why not buy even if it is a knock-off. As long as the buyer enjoys it, I see no problem with it. Now with the eye clock I know that I'll be receiving from my dad, I would not tell anyone that it is a George Nelson product. Not that they'd even ask. And if they did, I would tell them up-front that it's a knock-off of a George Nelson design. I'm buying things for decorative purposes...not to socially-further myself.

Well...
I wouldn't tell someone that it was a George Nelson. I'd tell them it was made according to the George Nelson specs, but I'd never say that I owned a George Nelson clock. I personally only consider the originals to be true George Nelson clocks. I consider Vitra, All Around the World, etc to be remakes of George Nelson designs, but not true George Nelsons (not that many of them were actually designed by Nelson anyway). If someone asked (which they wouldn't...at least not in my friends/family), I'd make sure that they knew it was a replica and not an original. And no, I don't see anything wrong with owning a remake or a knock-off. I own some remakes/knock-offs myself. Anyhoo, that seems to be LuciferSum's biggest peeve is someone trying to socially-further themselves by passing knock-offs/remakes as the real thing. I just think that many people own them for the cool look not as status symbols.

James thanks to you for find...
James thanks to you for finding all world, you started all this madness,
Klockit is a helpful website for the little sweep hands, shipping can be more than the cheap little hands so order several and order a movement for 5 bucks so easy to put in your clocks,It is a
very helpful web site if you are serious about clocks like i am, and need the parts, you can buy the movements, the same that vitra uses in their clocks and they do charge a buck more for the American made movements.

If any one needs spare parts for their Nelson clocks
email patty miller her email is [email protected] or call 610 391 9780 x 119 they
sell the hands for 18.00 for the set and have all the
hands for the clocks in production now, that they sell. They also sell the movement part for $18.00 and the sweep hand for $18.00 so if you want to be 100 percent right with G-D and want no dirty unlicensed parts in your clock. give her a call.

As we all know
As we all know, Vitra has had the rights to produce Nelson since 1957/58. Its not like the clocks are something new to them. I'm not saying their aren't some difference between the vintage clocks and their contemporary productions - although every piece of literature states that the clocks are produced from "the original design documents in the Nelson archives with the blessings of the Nelson estate", and Im almost certain the wood is walnut. I'll have to check the one my friend has.

Interestingly enough, check out the vintage pieces below via Architonic. Both are clearly bowed.

Got 'em today
Got the Eye, the Kite and the Steering Wheel clocks today from All World.

Both of the Eye and Kite have second hands. Both of 'em are solid and beautiful. (The Kite is bigger than I had thought).

The Steering Wheel has silver hands and no second hand. it's solid, but the orange hour marks are just taped on. I've actually seen it before and it's not quite as nifty as the original.

Happy with the quality....but one thing I DON'T like...the click click of the second hands and the fact that they don't turn smoothly. It's an issue with the contemporary motor....I'm sure I could replace this motor with one that doesn't click click click.

Noisy...indeed
That's why I prefer 'em to be electric. When they work well, they whisper quiet and the second moves smoothly without the second hesitation that looks soooooooooooo tacky.

But, hell, $159 for 3 beautiful clocks ain't nothing to sneeze at.

Sharp
Looking sharp LRF!

My Apologies
Alexandersforum you are correct. In scrolling through the Vitra timeline I mixed up the dates on two statements; when Vitra was granted rights by Herman Miller(56-7), and when they acquired rights from the Nelson Estate(mid 80s).

Holy Sh*t
Check out these 14 insanely beautiful and rare clocks.

No doubt about it, Nelson was one of the kings of mid century designers.

More
more

More
more

and more
more

and more
more

and still more
gee whiz

thanks Barry those were ...
thanks Barry those were fun to look at
I own several like the roman numeral but at least 15 i have never seen and i thought i had seen them all
I own 9 original Howard miller Nelson clocks
5 vitras and 1 from all world and tons of others . but i would love to own some of those differeent Nelson ones they are just way tooooo cool,
I have no idea why Howard miller would not re make them or vitra,
I am sure they would sell better than some of the crap they sell to day that is made in China. I cant believe that the astick clock that came out three years ago is no longer made by Howard Miller (that one is a classic Now)
what is with this company they act like they could care less and that is what made the company what it is today.

LRF...one more my late friend had
Lloyd:

My friend John had a really large black aluminum Nelson clock....we called it a hubcap clock. It was a 19" or more black cone with a silver metal steering wheel-like frame attached around the outside and it had long slender red hands. I believe it did have a second hand it was a battery clock.

Probably made in the early 1960's. (John sold all of his clock long before he passed away.)

Does this sound fimilar?

barry i have not seen t...
barry i have not seen that clock,
I have a feeling that there are so many out there that you or i or any one else has ever seen but if you ever see a cool object Nelson or other nice ceramic piece . Just let me know and I can order you any set of Nelson hands from Vitra and a fit up movement , and you too can have a cool looking clock. (I am gonna be on the look out for cool ceramic or lucite pieces that i can drill a hole in the center,) and make up a cool clock.

Another thing that made these so cool
was that they were so varied in design and concept. Yes, there was a committee of Nelson employees working on the clocks, but no one in the design world made so many varied versions of a particular type of item. The wonderful Charles and Ray Eames were nowhere as prolific as Nelson...in fact NO ONE...not even Alver Aalto was as prolific as Nelson.

After seeing all of those clocks, his basic cabinets group, the Comprehensive Storage System, The Storagewall, his Sling Sofa, Kangaroo chair, the Swag(ged) leg group, the Marshmellow Sofa, the Coconut chair and ottoman, the Catenary Group, the occasional chairs, the occasional tables, the Gateleg dining room table, the Pretzel chairs, the Tray table, the "end" table, I'm just amazed that so much beautiful and truly clever designs came from this one man (and his associates).

For all of you people who love the wonderful European stuff, I can't think of anyone who was as prolific or was as consistently good as George Nelson.

What I got
Saarinen Grasshopper chair and ottoman (Knoll)
George Nelson thin brass legged end table (Herman Miller)
George Nelson round coffee table (Herman Miller)
George Nelson 'end' table (2) (Herman Miller)
Saarinen tulip stool (Knoll)
Florence Knoll coffee table (Knoll)
Eames LaFonda chair (Herman Miller)
George Nelson typewriter desk (Herman Miller)
Aalto plastic top stools (2) (Thonet)
Richard Schultz Topiary chairs (2) (Richard Schultz)
Richard Schultz petal side table (Richard Schultz)
Aalto Zebra 400 tank chair (Artek)
1928 British Columbia credenza wind-up photograph
George Nelson Comprehensive Storage System (2) (Herman Miller)
Gieger marble chest credenza (IIL)
Gieger storage chest (IIL)
Eames 19 3/4" swuare tables with casters (2) (Herman Miller)
Paperclip computer desk (Blu Dot)
Paperclip bookshelf (Blu Dot)
Paperslip CPU stand (Blu Dot)
Printer 3 drawer cabinet (Lido)
Joe Columbo "OZO" cart (Kartell)
Jack Kelley scooter (Herman Miller)
Eames 47" round dining table (Herman Miller)
Eames EC127 chairs (4) (Herman Miller)
Conant Ball breakfront (Conant Ball)
Large Square Eames table (Herman Miller)
72" Nelson bench (2) (Herman Miller)
Mirra chair (Herman Miller)
Aeron chair (Herman Miller)
Equa leather chair (Herman Miller)
Ingrid? square storage cubes (over 40) (Ingrid?)

I'm sure I forgot something...I did not list my lamps, but I have a large original Cigar Bubble Lamp....

Another Nelson clock!
Saw this on eBay for $325.00 but it now. Since it apparently doesn't worjk, it's too expensive for me....but it's nice.

Thanks
Thanks for the quick response. Does the marble just sit on the base?

Mavado Nelson?
How little did George Nelson have to do with Howard Miller clock I just won for a measley $19.95?

It's a nice clock
and well worth the $19.95.

Yowsers MidMod50, Color me...
Yowsers MidMod50, Color me jealous. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we'd love to see some pictures of your collection. Congratulations on owning perhaps the most enviable collection on the forum (no offense LRF -- yours is nice too).

midmod
I definitely appreciate that Vitra and Howard Miller are keeping interest in them alive,


I wish this were a true statement Vitra cause they see money along with Jacquline Nelson, estate. but Howard miller could care less i have talked with them along with some others and as far as they a re concened these are some step kids that they would like to forget,
It erks the hell out of me that one of the greatest compies of the 20 century who made there survial on the Nelson clocks would have such a low regard for them and not have a full time archivest who could tell you and give you information on each clock. and why they would let them expire like a lease on 57th and 5 th Ave in NYC for no reason,
There opion not mine was they saw no future in replicating some of the original designs and the one they did replicate, they pulled out of circulation when the last clocks were bought up by vendors (astrick clock)

When Nelson whent to the grave, and that big MCM place in the sky the designs whent with him. along with the Nelson office and ideas,
Thank g-d Vitra had enough for site to get hold of Jacqueline Nelson and make a business deal with her and hats off to Modernica .
I don't always agree with all there case study stuff but they sure as hell got it down perfect on the bubble lamps they are better than the howard miller ones, and they did something right
Now there fiberglass chairs, sorry folks they suck!!!!!!

One thing for damn sure this would never happen with the Eames office and Eames grand son who knows how to drain the last nickel out of the Eames name, if they were grandpas clocks they would be making every one of those clocks and a gold sticker for the 100th birthday on the back so hats off to that clan.
Pity about the Nelson family, taking what ever they can geton 8 out of 100 clocks.

anyone ever see this one...
anyone ever see this one before? I've seen many meridian ceramic clocks....but not any like this. I have a chance to buy this for $50.00...is it worth it?

Another Well Made Unmarked Iron Clock
Any ideas here? Weinberg? Beautiful clock pivots on the wall to be seen from more angles. It still keeps perfect time. With an iron body and brass bracket.

.
This thread continues in 'More about Nelson Clocks 3'
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm//...

The Weinberg ball clocks...
The Weinberg ball clocks have lanshire movements as does the rectangular framed standing closck he designed.

I have seen your clock and several other similar (swiveling) Lanshire models attributed to Weinberg....but never any real definitive proof.

Here is another

that is a cool clock i ...
that is a cool clock i love it