25-Mar-08
Eileen Gray?
How can I tell if my Eileen Gray table is a newer remake or an original.
posted by eac4085
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
Looks like mine
and mine was lovingly made in Chinese by cheap labor.

I have no idea how to determine the 'original' - I doubt it was imported into the U.S. during that original production period.
posted by barrympls
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
That table is in the publi...
That table is in the public domain
there are millions made so i doubt that one made
by the best of companies would be any different than
a Chinese knockoff on the Eileen Gray table
I think Thonet made the originals
posted by LRF
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
Barry does....
Barry does....your table have the little knob at the top of the piece of rod that comes through the glass.
posted by eac4085
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
Nope
no knob. The cross piece is smooth.
posted by barrympls
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
Is it real?
When I was redecorating my home several years ago I also purchased and Eileen Gray E 1027 table. Being a child of the '50s I grew up with & loved modern design but was not really familiar with many of the designers. Moving to Connecticut (land of very traditional designs) I had one heck of a time finding any store that could fill my needs until I went over the border several years ago to The Modern (Yellow) Furniture Barn in Armonk, NY (they have since closed after many years in business and I have never recovered). A lovely young sales girl/design consultant was great at helping us. We purchased lots of wonderful designs and need a small table to finish the look. She suggested the beautiful little Eileen Gray E 1027 table. I just fell in love with the design and was sold. How could something from the 1920's be so beautiful and timeless? I educated myself quite a bit in furniture design and had never realized how many beautiful pieces of furniture were made so long ago and still looks like it was created yesterday!
After purchasing the table I started checking around and found that there was quite a discrepency in price, from a high of about $100 to quite a bit more. I paid a lot for mine and was concerned about it's authenticity. I had been purchasing items of quality and was hoping to pass them down to my children to enjoy (and last as opposed to Target Store stuff, whom BTW, also sells our dear Eileen Gray table). When my table was delivered there were absolutely not marking or serail number on it. I called the salesgirl & she informed me that it was made in Europe (I can't remember where) by the same company and specifications of the original table and that none of them are marked. I was skeptical, thanked her and left it at that. I love my table, it appears to be of high quality, and won't give it up. ~L

[A bunch of years ago I was a huge fan of buying knock-offs (bags, wallets, scarfs, etc)& had a ball shopping at the great NYC Flea markets. You could buy for cheap, look great, they would last a year and then you were on to the next best thing. I became turned off at the whole knock off thing when $1- $10 fun buys started to sell for not much less then the real deal.]
posted by ~L
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
Thanks
Thanks ~L. I too can not find any markings but does have some small rust pits not noticeable(hints it might be a little older) and I purchased from an estate filled w/ MCM furniture.
posted by eac4085
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
I
fondly remember the Modern Furniture Barn. I must have made my parents take me when I was in high school. . .
posted by SDR
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
rights
As far as I know these are the only compnies who have the right to produce the Eileen Gray designs.
Aram produces/re-edits your table.
http://www.aram.co.uk/designer_profile.asp?id=28;...
posted by Erik.H
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
écart
http://www.ecart-international.com/
posted by Erik.H
 [edit]
 
26-Mar-08
posted by Erik.H
 [edit]
 
28-Mar-08
I've got the little knob at...
I've got the little knob at the end, and it looks like Aram's piece does as well.

I have seen an alternative version where the middle horizontal piece (where the chain attaches too) is shaped differently: while mine is like a rectangle where the top and bottom edges are parallel, some versions have these 2 edges arc'd slightly inwards, so it appears sort of like an hourglass on its side. Hard to explain, hope this makes sense!
posted by cwoo
 [edit]
 
29-Mar-08
What is original?
"ARAM holds the worldwide head license for Eileen Gray designs, and is the only UK source for the authentic products."

It the design is a public domain know - what does it mean "licence for EH designs"? Who gave / sold that licence and why the same design made with the quality material would be "imitation" and Aram's piece "original"?

I have this table, exactely the same as on the Aram's photo. Mine is 10 years old, it still looks perfectly, it was made by en italian factory.
posted by Angela
 [edit]
 
29-Mar-08
herself
the Aram website says :

"One of Eileen Gray's last tasks in the early 1970s was to work with Zeev Aram on the introduction of her designs onto the world market. In 1973 Eileen Gray granted the worldwide rights to manufacture and distribute her designs to Aram Designs Ltd, London. "

This was confirmed in a documentary/interview I saw some time ago about/with Eileen Gray.

This means she worked together with Aram to reproduce her designs to her requirements.
posted by Erik.H
 [edit]
 
29-Mar-08
It's ok, but...
It's ok, her arangement. But.... the desing of this small table is already in the public domain. So anyone producing the good quality product can create it as good as Aram. They are just the prefered producer, by the designer.
posted by Angela
 [edit]
 
29-Mar-08
We have discussed this...
so often on this forum that I am NOT going to go their even when it is this tempting, but...I think Angela came up with an excellent piece of vocabulary that we have never used here: the "prefered manufacturer" I like that! Whenever something is in the public domain and made according to specifications but by another than the "licenced" manufacturer we could call that last one the "prefered manufacturer"...
posted by koen
edited on 30-Mar-08 12:07 AM  [edit]
 
30-Mar-08
Sooo........
I understand this whole prefered manufacturer of pieces, but it seem as if those pieces (Eileen Grey table for example) do not have any markings on them (as my piece also does not have and that was my concern in buying the piece for the price I paid!)how do we know if they are Real McCoy, copy, fake or whatever. I do have my sales receipt and it does state that I have an Eileen Gray E1027 but I do not know where it was manufactured, as it came with no tags. If we plan on passing this piece to our children, how the heck will anyone know if these pieces were original, a great TARGET copy, or a make by the prefered company copy? And how can WE as Design Addicts know if what we are buying is worth a couple of bucks or make big auction result big bucks? Any thoughts?
posted by ~L
 [edit]
 
30-Mar-08
I guarantee that the few who...
I guarantee that the few who really care will be able to discern without labels or stamps.

posted by finch
 [edit]
 
30-Mar-08
once again i do not ...
once again i do not want to offend any one....
buy a good stainless or solid chrome
table at the best price you can get it for, they are all the same, you will not get eggs thrown at you!! cause you have a fake eileen grey table '!!!! you will not be thrown out of the mid century society for buying a fake on this one.
Even Lucifesum would find it in his heart to agree that this reproduction will not damage the image of the designer, or ruins one reputation.
this table has been made by several manufactures for over 75 years when Eileen Gray was a live and after her death,
It is like Kleenex in the vernacular of furniture,
posted by LRF
 [edit]
 
31-Mar-08
Real value of this object
If you wanted to buy something to pass to your children, sorry to say, but I think that you should have buy something produced in limited edition, or some handmade object, peinting or simply non-industrial object. This kind of table is certainly great piece of furniture, but produced by thousands!

What is sure - your children will once, in long, long time I hope ;-) - have your furniture and they will keep it affectionately, because you loved it and you choosed it. Not because of its value.
posted by Angela
 [edit]
 
31-Mar-08
Angela
I would urge you to go through some of the discussions in the forum archives. There are many good (and many, many bad) arguments both for and against licensed and unlicensed products - everything from environmental issues, to the US economy, to simply wanting something 'authentic'. I agree that sentiment plays a huge part, especially when things are passed through families. However, as has been discussed, there are many issues of quality that authentic manufacturers are likely to address - making an authentic pieces (most of the time) superior to a knock-off - in materials, production impact, longevity, inherent value, and -though we may not always like to think about it - resale value.

All you have to do is watch Antiques Roadshow to see the look of disappointment when the appraiser says in his British accent (why are they always British??) "if this had been an original I would recommend that you insure it for $10,000. However, this is a copy, and as such its worth approximately one copper hapenny."


And as for LRF - Kleenex may be in the pulic lexicon as a generic name for a facial tissue, but I guarantee that if someone slapped "Kleenex" onto a product they'd get their butts sued off.
posted by LuciferSum
 [edit]
 
01-Apr-08
Lucifer, I red already those discussions, very interesting, indeed.
Lucifer, I red already those copy/original discussions, very interesting, indeed.

But that is not what I'm talking about. I suggested that, for being sure that you have some valuable object, you should buy some limited edition, or designer-signed, or hand-made object, not an industrial object made by thousands!

This EG table, even if produced by agreed manufacturer, won't probably have its value increased with time.
It's my supposition, but I'm not a professional in that branch. I'm happy to learn more about it, by reading those interesting discussions.

(sorry for my english, it's quite approximative!)
posted by Angela
 [edit]
 
20-Jun-09
Old thread, new dilemma
So, having read this in its entirety, is there any other way to tell an Aram from a knockoff besides the presence of the little knob on the top of the chrome piece that comes out of the glass?

I have a chance to buy a pair from a person who has owned them for three years who bought them in the UK off of UK-ebay and paid over 500 pounds. Would there be any other markings that anyone knows about?
posted by Riki (USA/CH)
edited on 20-Jun-09 10:40 PM  [edit]
 
20-Jun-09
P.S.
I have sent an email to Aram. Will let you know if they respond.
posted by Riki (USA/CH)
 [edit]
 
21-Jun-09
Nice response
which I will post here for future people with questions regarding this table:

Hello Mrs. Campbell.
Many thanks for your enquiry.
ClassiCon produces and sells the Eileen Gray Collection as worldwide licensee of Aram Designs Ltd, London. In the early 1970s, Eileen Gray began to collaborate with Zeev Aram to develop her furniture and lamps for series production. Eileen Gray transferred marketing rights for her designs to Aram in 1973.
In producing design classics, the accent is on quality. High quality means in concrete terms that pieces in the Classic Collection of furniture are indelibly marked and numbered consecutively. The ClassiCon signature provides a guarantee that only high-grade materials and methods are used in production ? meeting all ecological requirements ? and that every piece of furniture has passed strict quality control. The ClassiCon logo offers the assurance that each limited edition is an authentic replica of the original, made with the consent of the rights holders.
With regards to verifying whether these two E1027 tables you are intending to buy are authentic, it would depend on the age of the tables. The E1027 tables, produced today, are stamped with a serial number, the Classicon logo and Eileen Grays signature on the inside of the upright stem and there is also a sticker attached to the glass top, just beneath the handle, authenticating it as a Classicon piece. I am unsure as to how long Classicon have been using this form of identification, I believe the sticker is a recent addition but I imagine the stamping has been in use for many years.
I have attached a PDF document that contains a little info about this piece and also the dimensions. If these tables have no visible identity then measuring them may be a good indicator as to their authenticity.
If I may be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,
Myles
<
Myles Brown
Assistant Store Manager
ARAM STORE
110 Drury Lane
London
WC2B 5SG
Tel: 020 7557 7557
www.aram.co.uk
. . . . .
There are also two pages attached to the email (see the pdf file above) but I can't figure out how to copy them here.


posted by Riki (USA/CH)
 [edit]
 
21-Jun-09
There must be some weakness in the rights
regarding Eileen Gray's furniture, because her stuff is among the most knock-offed of any 20th designer. Alphaville and probably other companies freely sell her glass side table, as well a number of her chairs openly without any fear of reprisials.

I have that side table, which is clearly a knockoff, and the quality of the table ain't bad.
posted by barrympls (USA)
 [edit]
 
22-Jun-09
Barry
All boils down to money. As in - it costs a lot of money to retain lawyers to pursue knock-off companies. Which is why most people don't do it. Once in a while the big giants like Herman Miller will grumble and make some noise just to scare folks. But the reality is that it is too difficult top chase down even where the companies are located. And I would imagine that after a while you just assume that people get it, or they don't.

(edited by DA)

I kind of like the attitude that Knoll takes - similar to the English Royals: they do not even acknowledge contenders to the throne.
posted by LuciferSum (USA)
edited on 03-Mar-10 04:59 PM  [edit]
 
23-Jun-09
Thanks, Lucifer
I can't help wishing that one of those knockoff companies would make the Eames CTW-1 rectangular coffee table, or one of the Nelson coffee tables not currently being made. Or perhaps the black/white top Lewis Butler coffee table!

posted by barrympls (USA)
 [edit]
 
29-Jun-09
More pix
that the seller has forwarded. No knob that I can see on top of the crossbar. What do you think? There is some pitting of the chrome so I do believe that they are older but that doesn't make them real.


http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/liazid
posted by Riki (USA/CH)
 [edit]
 

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