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10-Jul-08 |
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Steaming out dents in a foam chair
Does anybody have any experience with steaming dents from foam in an upholstered leather chair? I had a chair reupholstered about a year ago, and it has developed nice big leg dents in it. The upholstery shop (a much lauded one, by the way) has given me zero support on this, even though they clearly used crappy foam.
Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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...that is to say, *any*...
...that is to say, *any* pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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I reckon unless you replace...
I reckon unless you replace the foam it will just keep happening, if you don't sit on it for a few weeks you might get some resilience but what would be the point of that?
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posted by Heath
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10-Jul-08 |
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I dunno...the upholstery...
I dunno...the upholstery shop suggested a steam treatment would bring it back up. I thought it was a cop out, too. As for leaving it be in hopes of a resurrection -- I am often away for weeks at a time, and the chair still looks the same, so...no dice.
I was just wondering if anyone else had messed with this before, as said upholstery shop suggested that I ship them my rather heavy chair there and back, out of my own pocket, so that they could steam out the dents. They have insisted that the distinctly thigh-shaped dents in the seat are from me storing something in the chair other than my behind, and refused to make good on their work.
Not too cool. And these guys were supposed to be the best.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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I
can't see how steam would repair foam..
Surely it only works on a fibrous product ..'fluffing' the compressed fibres ?
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posted by robert1960
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10-Jul-08 |
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This does sound a bit queer, ...
This does sound a bit queer, foam is just a sponge so what is the steam supposed to do, fill your upholstery up with moisture, I can smell it from here. And what might this do to leather? How are you supposed to do this?
Good foam just doesn't do this, not even after 20 years it shouldn't.
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posted by Heath
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10-Jul-08 |
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"We feel that these marks...
"We feel that these marks could be steamed out. We would be happy to repair this chair if you would incur the costs to ship it to and from us. We would not recommend that you try to steam the chair without calling us to walk you through it. If the steaming is not done properly the leather could delaminate from the foam or the foam could delaminate from the shell or both. "
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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When I first removed the...
When I first removed the chair from the shipping container, my thumb left an impression that you can still see to this day, a year later. I foolishly reasoned at the time that it would settle out. When the impressions started to show up, I thought, also, that they would settle out over time. I was also in denial because I hate becoming engaged in a battle with the merchant, which I am presently. She had the nerve to state that, 'we don't believe' that the chair could have gotten dents from normal seating, and decided instead that I had been storing something atop my freshly upholstered seat that was merely shaped like an ass and two legs -- thereby, nullifying any warranty through conjecture.
By the way, for all those who poo poo new editions -- I actually bought this chair for its bones and had it redone out of a similar recycling bent, but I'm finding that there's always something wonky about re-upholstery, no matter how reputed the shop is. This is only one instance.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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They glued the leather down?...
They glued the leather down? What sort of chair is this?
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posted by Heath
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10-Jul-08 |
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Sorry -- Swan chair.
Sorry -- Swan chair.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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okay so I suppose it had to be glued, but how are you supposed to steam it through the leather? You can't come up from the underneath.
Depressions might not look so bad on a different chair but it must stick out like dogs goolies on this one. I'd say it was an accident that cheap foam was put on and they really are trying to avoid re-doing it becuase of the fiddliness and cost of hand stitching, again.
I'd be very firm that it must be redone, its just not up to standard and I bet you paid a lot for it. Even if this steaming does work I think it would be a short term solution.
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posted by Heath
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10-Jul-08 |
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I agree. I'm not looking for...
I agree. I'm not looking for an amen corner on this, but I'm glad that I am not the only one who's incredulous. The reply e-mail from the upholstery shop secretary was in its usual terse style, stating that they did not believe that these marks were caused by a person but by something else sitting in the chair. Wha? Talk about insult to injury. Warranty void upon self-serving conjecture!
Anyway, if they were going to do this steam-thing, I thought maybe it was something I could do myself. You're right, I suspect that they are dodging any accountability and that this is maybe only a token consolation. You're also right that I paid a healthy lot for work to be done.
Mighty pissed.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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I'd be angry too. Maybe next time, whatever the job, only deal with the tradesman himself.
Is there anything like a 'trade practices act' you can refer to?
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posted by Heath
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10-Jul-08 |
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steaming won't work.
They used poor quality foam and steaming will not do a damn thing to fix it, even if they could get steam to the foam without damaging the leather or chair shell or whatever.
Is there an upholsterer nearby who can look at the chair and write a letter for you stating that the foam has lost its resiliency from just normal use? I doubt the firm that did the job will give you a break based on another upholsterer's opinion, but getting the second opinion would be the first step in preparing a case against the other upholsterer if you want to go that route.
I think the only way to fix the chair will be to have it redone with the right type of foam (probably latex). The firm that screwed it up should give you a partial refund at the very minimum.
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posted by spanky
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10-Jul-08 |
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I'm pissed just reading this.
Unacceptable that you are being treated this way.
Such a beautiful chair. Perfect upholstery is so important
to its architecture.
I'm not sure i would want them to touch it again. And to have to pay
shipping?
I agree with all above about the steaming. Does not make sense at all.
They may have received a bad batch of foam from a shady supplier.
But they should admit something went wrong.
I have sample squares of foam i was testing for a kayak seat. They were
smashed under scrap wood and steel for months and most of it bounced
back.
Pretty hard to make crap foam these days.
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posted by rockland
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10-Jul-08 |
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There was actually one...
There was actually one interaction I had with the secretary of the upholstery company while the chair was being done; there was a delay, and she explained that this was due to some issues with the foam they were using, but that everything was finally squared away and that the chair would only be a little overdue. Unfortunately, this was a phone exchange -- no record.
What really soured me is that they would fob me off with the steam treatment, and then state, 'we don't believe you' therefore any warranty is null.
Thanks all for clarifying for me that the steam treatment is probably bunk, which is what I had suspected. What a downer.
Meanwhile, if you ever find yourself wanting to have something reupholstered, don't be afraid to be a total prick about the details.
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posted by finch
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10-Jul-08 |
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You seem to be withholding...
You seem to be withholding the firm's name here -- I, for one, would love to know who did this so I can avoid them. Their warranties, apparently, aren't worth the foam they upholster their chairs with.
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posted by brbeard
edited on 10-Jul-08 10:41 PM [edit]
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11-Jul-08 |
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This chair was actually...
This chair was actually reupholstered by BK Upholstery in PA. I went the extra mile and dollars to have the chair done by a company that was reputedly the preeminent expert in restoration of this kind of tricky furniture. I think the tendency is to assume a level of confidence in the merchant whenever you shell out a generous wad for a service. This is a mistake. I am constantly reminded that 'You get what you pay for' is just not an axiom you can always bank on.
I really feel left in the lurch on this. I am awaiting to hear from the actual owner of the place tomorrow, and I'll relay whatever conclusion is arrived at -- and whether they care to redeem themselves in any way. I had thought to post the actual communiques I've had thus far here, but don't want to bog the forum down too much with my tragedy.
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posted by finch
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11-Jul-08 |
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sorry to say that is a to...
sorry to say that is a tough deal for you
BK used good foam it just happens, nothing is harder to do then the swan,Egg,womb,
I have done plenty of them in the shop and i never enjoy doing any cause something always goes wrong,
The guys that work at the shop hates them, and we only let one guy with 29 years experience work on them cause they are such a problem.
I have no idea if Bk is the best in the country like you say or they have the best reputation, I know Olek Lejbzon & Co. in NYC is good and expensive maybe you should contact them.
I will not waste my time hawking my business or name with this forum as i certainly dont need any business from any one on this forum as up till now
I have nothing but satisfied customers and if not i make things right , and that is the way i like to keep it. so send all your work to those guys
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posted by LRF
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11-Jul-08 |
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I was actually trying to...
I was actually trying to avoid putting anyone's head on a block...unless it absolutely belongs there. We will see what we shall see.
You seem certain that BK used good foam. How's that? This sort of wear seems abnormal to me, and I do not have an especially bony ass. Seems like a foam issue.
In any event, I will never buy anything to have it reupholstered. This is not the first bad experience. I never thought I'd say this, but buy retail, or buy mint vintage or vintage with an acceptable amount of wear.
Thanks for the heads up about the NY upholsters. As I recall, your shop doesn't handle leather, at least on these more complex pieces.
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posted by finch
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11-Jul-08 |
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no we dont do leather ...
no we dont do leather to difficult and cost prohibitive on the swan and egg
i always wondered why Fritz Hansen charged 10,000 dollars for a leather Egg now i know they are a night mare to hand sew,
Please dont be soured on vintage chairs to recover
it is not easy and so many times they dont look perfect . I always make sure i check every chair before it is shipped cause i hate to redo things a 2nd time I will be honest i didnt know much about the upholstery business when i started this company but have learned a hell of a lot and how hard some pieces can be, foam is tricky, and very expensive , but good people is the most important and we have had the same three guys for 20 years, I will bet BK will make it right they are suppose to be good. just tell them you want it redone, and do it right you are the customer and reputation is every thing in this business.
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posted by LRF
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11-Jul-08 |
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I'm sure LRF has more experience with foam than me, though I've had a bit. I'd say there is probably a smoothing layer of 1/2" on top of the bulk of the foam, I'm just amazed whoever was laying it couldn't feel it lacked resilience.
I'm amazed they claim "BK Upholstery also has the distinction of having been the only U.S. certified upholsterer for the Danish manufacturer Fritz Hansen"
I'd email Fritz Hansen about it, I reckon that would put the wind up them.
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posted by Heath
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11-Jul-08 |
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Also
Try contacting their Better Business Bureau. Chances are, they are members. If not, you can still file a claim. The BBB puts a lot of effort in mediating disputes between consumers and companies. Whether they are members or not, people will always be able to check the BBB website and see that a claim was filed and whether or not they made an effort to correct the situation. Many larger businesses check the BBB site to make sure they are spending their $$$ with reputable companies. I am sure they do not want clients with potentially more $$$ to spend passing them by.
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posted by whitespike
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11-Jul-08 |
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Or you might ask them one more time
to make good on their less then stellar execution and lack of willingness to make good and if they still refuse....
Send them a link to this thread with the obvious implication of far and wide bad publicity through a very passionate community. Whatever you do, do not let them off the hook, because it will only encourage further bad behavior that someone else will have to contend with. It's time that craftspeople stood behind their work.
Like they said in the movie "Network" ; "I'm sick and tired, and I'm not going to take it anymore", or something to that effect.
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posted by Big Television Man
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11-Jul-08 |
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'I'm
I'm mad as hell, and I ain't gonna take it anymore'
I believe..but could be wrong ;)
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posted by robert1960
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11-Jul-08 |
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Sounds about right
and Mad as Hell is what I would be like our friend Finch.
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posted by Big Television Man
edited on 11-Jul-08 07:10 PM [edit]
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14-Jul-08 |
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Finch.
good luck i hope they make it right they really should, for them it is no big deal just open the seam and put a new piece of foam in,
We do it all the time, especially on my own chairs cause i am the most picky of all people,
I have two swan chairs at home that i hate the way they turned out , one of the guys who is gone now that was at the shop a couple of years did mine 2 years ago, and i have hated them , when the shop is not so busy they will go on the bench for a total redo, with Kvadrat fabric,
i have maharam messenger on them now and it is really to thin, that is why Fritz Hansen recomends heavier fabric on the hand sewn chairs,
So see even people who own side line business, of upholstery shops have problems too. Believe me they are difficult chairs to do cause of them being hand sewn.
and leather is a nightmare to start with. but foaming the chair is the easy part.
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posted by LRF
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