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Mogensen Spanish chair #226

- 09 Nov 2016 -
23 posts / 0 new
#1

How much is the #226 Spanish chair worth, there wasn't a lot of them.


Designer(s)
Country
Denmark
Functions
lounge & easy chairs
Periods
1950 - 1959

Comments

- 09 Nov 2016

There was one at Wright 14 nov 2013, sold for $2,750.

- 09 Nov 2016

I agree with Leif, white oak has a very nice BTU value ... of course if you could find the ever rarer Osage Orange Spanish chair, then you would really have something!

- 09 Nov 2016

I would appreciate an answer from someone serious. I have googled so I know the prizerange for the 2226.

- 09 Nov 2016

Serious answer: Please read the forum rules that appear below the "comment" box when you click on "Add a comment".

- 10 Nov 2016

See what tktoo said.

And I stand by my answer. It was a serious answer. I wish it weren't, but it was.

And I have burned a lot of Emory oak in my time. It is a red oak, not white oak, but I assure you it is every bit as btu-filled, perhaps more, due to the slow growth of its desert environment.

- 10 Nov 2016

Thanks tktoo, I didn't notice that it's against the rules to ask for a valuation.
So I read the rules a liittle more and found this: " You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use Design Addict to post any message which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate" etc.

So leif and Zephyr, you haven't heard of the Mogensen Spanish chair?

- 10 Nov 2016

Relax Conny. The point is, that this is not a valuation service. People on this forum appreciate and revere the designs discussed here. I find that they are more than accommodating when providing academic information on identification, repair, maintenance, history, etc., why sully this wonderful exchange of information by inserting money into the conversation?

If you have Googled the chair, then you have as much information on what prices it has fetched, as most people here. Sure, some people on here probably have a little more information on price because they are dealers and the like, but at the end of the day, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. The internet has lots of records out there on what people have been willing to pay, you just need to do the work searching. Furthermore, prices are highly dependent on condition, location, venue of sale, etc., etc. so wtihout taking an in-depth look at your particular situation, any information provided here would be speculative anyways.

As far as accuracy of information, I am not sure how you would apply this to an opinion/joke, and Osage Orange does have a higher BTU value than White Oak.

- 10 Nov 2016

I was reading this thread and noticed an add on the side of the page in the "buy & sell" section... Does this answer your question?

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi mvalen, that is not his prize, I checked his website and there is no prizetag on it.

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi Zephyr, so now you can joke around with people all you like as long as they break one of the rules?
So who besides you and leif knows that it was a joke?
I didn't and perhaps more people thought it was odd that two "experts" like you recommended using it as firewood.

- 11 Nov 2016

I might be a little old school but I think a little more respect and courtesy from both side would be nice. We are all the same kind of strange animals here after all...

As Zephyr said, valuation depends on a lot of factors and is not an exact science. It would be so much easier if there was a RRP on vintage furniture (and probably much less fun for us as well).

A valuation also greatly depends on why you need it. I mean, it will be different wether you want to sell or buy. And if you want to sell, are you a dealer with a well established shop or a private person that is selling on ebay?

Like many on this forum, I like to buy furnitures. I also live in a 80 m² flat which means that I often resell stuff. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade... I guess what I want to say here is that I have experience on both side: buying and selling.

Now, to the point.

When I want to know the value of a piece here is what I do (I'll use the Spanish chair as an example - sorry if I am breaking a rule here):

* First, don't check 1stdibs as their prices are generally inflated. I am not a big fan of ebay sold listing neither.

* If the piece is still in production. How much a new one cost? In the case of a Spanish chair: ca. 3.500€. It is generally said that just like cars, designer furniture lose 30% of their value as soon as they leave the shop and 50% if they are in used but very good condition. That leaves us with a price range of 1.750 to 2.450 €.

* Check "Den store danske mobelguide" (a good danish book that gives valuation for a lot of "mainstream" pieces). The Spanish chair is listed at 10.000 DKK to 15.000 DKK (between 1.300 € and 2.000€).

* Then I would check an excellent swedish site that agretates auction results in Scandinavia (Lauritz, Bruun Rasmussen, Bukowsky's, etc.). www.vadardenvard.se. There I see that Spanish chairs in good condition sell for 8.000 DKK to 13.000 DKK. On this price, you have to add 20% of auction fee. That leaves us with a price range of 9.500 DKK to 15.500 DKK which is more or less what Den Store Danske Mobelguide says.

* Last. I would check how much established dealers would ask for the piece. My reference are often Roxy Klassik and Klassik Mobelkunst in CPH as they have a very wide range and I guess that as they are danes selling danish furniture, they know their stuff. There are no Spanish chairs on Roxy but Klassik sold one for 19.800 DKK (2.650€). As these two dealers are known to be expensive, you can also have a look at www.retrostart.com but the price range you will find is pretty wide.

If you want to buy a Spanish chair.
Unless you live in Scandinavia, buying from danish auction houses is complicated. It will require having a transporter picking the piece at the auction house and shipping it to you. This is pretty expensive. I don't know where you live but for France, I think that we are talking of 300-400€. Plus, you'll have to pay 25% of VAT. All in, that leaves us with an average price of ca. 2.400 €. You'll notice that we are not too far from the price tag of the danish dealers and the price from Wright you mentionned.

Now if you want to sell.
I think we can agree that a the value of a Spanish chair is around 2.500€ . But unless you are a dealer there is no way you can sell it for this kind of money on ebay or CL (or your local equivalent). From my own experience, people on these sites that are willing to pay for quality stuff are either people like us looking for bargains, either dealers. This is kind of logical: if I have 2.500€ to spend on a chair, I will not spend countless hours on the internet but I'll go to a reputable dealer with some kind of warranties.
Basically, your options would be:
* Selling it through a local auction house. Fees will apply and there is no warranty you'll get a good price. Risky.
* Selling it on consignement at a dealer's. Let's say, he will put a price tag of 2.500€. Minus VAT (20% in France), minus the commission (the dealers I know take 30%), that'll be around 1.500 € for you if it sells fast (price will gradually drop if it doesn't).
* Selling to a dealer. You'll be happy to get half of the end price. Indeed, dealers have fixed costs and need to make a living out of it. That leaves us with 1.250€. But for dealers cash flow is generally an issue and they won't spend thousands of euros if they don't have a customer for the chair. If they don't, they will only buy if the price is a bargain.

It always reminds me of my grandfather. He was a philatelist and had some very valuable stamps. As a kid I was amazed by his collection and very impressed by the value of some stamps he had. He always told me that he could sell them for half of listed value. It really puzzled me, if there is a listed value why can't he sell his stamp for this "official" price???

Sorry for the long post. It is really only my personnal opinion and I am not sure how it can translate to another country. But what I wanted to say here is that putting a value on vintage furniture is difficult. Sure, one can say the value of a standard vintage Spanish chair is around 2.500€ but is it really the value of the chair if you can't get more than half of that - in a good day. So, how much is a Spanish chair worth? 2.500 €? 1.250€ ? less?

- 11 Nov 2016

Very nice post DrPoulet. I am in a very dark and pessimistic mood with the state of the world right now. And so are a lot of people. This actually change value of non-essential good dramatically.

There are also two different versions of the Spanish chair. One of them would worth much more. We don't know which version, because we have no photos. And condition, especially with vintage leather is a major variable. Finally, being in the US, I don't find Danish prices to be very accurate. There is generally less supply here, and a different range of supply. There is also a different range of demand.

- 11 Nov 2016

For the record, I didn't understand Leif's firewood comment either, but now I get it. Context is everything.

ConnyE's location isn't visible when you click on his user name, but he said something in the past about "we in Sweden and Denmark" so your post should be very helpful, DrPoulet. Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough.

- 11 Nov 2016

DrPoulet, wonderful post. We should reference this post in the future, when requests of valuation pop up again. Also, you are quite right, with the recent tragic events here in the US, a bit more courtesy and respect is more than needed. This is especially true when it comes to Americans, like myself, when we are on an international forum (no matter how small that forum is). It will be important to show that not all of us are baffoons, like our leaders.....

Connie, my apologies. I did not mean to offend you ..... and while I wish I knew as much about Danish design as many on this forum do, I am far from an expert. Again, sorry to offend.

- 11 Nov 2016

Guys. I feel for you. Really. I cannot believe that a guy like that will be your next president.

We have also our fair share of jerks in Europe and I am pretty sure that France will be one the next domino to fall (presidential elections are next year and it smells really, really bad).

But let's not be too pessimistic. It is up to us to reverse this trend with a little more respect, courtesy and tolerance. It might sound a little cheesy, but when I see my kids and their friends, I am very confident in the future.

That being said, in these ugly days, let's just enjoy the beauty of a wood grain, a well executed dovetail joinery and the amazing work of our favorite designers...

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi DrPoulet, that pretty much summed up my modus operandi.

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi Conny. I have seen from your past posts that you seem to have some kind of focus on Mogensen. Have you read the book "Borge Mogensen: Simplicity and Function" published in October. Is it worth buying?

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi leif, yes this thread was called "Mogensen Spanish chair #226" for a reason but apparently it was not totally obvius, sorry for that. The chair that is manufactured today is numbered "2226" and my question was about "226". The first "Spanish chair" looks like the modern one, one stretcher in the back just like the one in the front. Then Mogensen changed to two rectangular stretchers in the back, the 226 was born. He had the leather to the first chair made by Dahlmans with leather from Dominion Belting. The first chair itself was made by Erhard Rasmussen and when the chair changed number to 226 it also changed producer, Fredericia Stolefabrik, going for a bigger market. They made about 250 between 1959 and 1961 with Dahlmans leather seat. The next change on the chair was the leather seat, Fredericia Stolefabrik moved the leather seat production to another firm and they made it simpler, they removed the stitching on the back where it's hung on the oak backlegs. Now the 2226 was born.
So my original question was related to the 250 chairs made between 1959 and 1961 with the stitching and marked 226. Here are some pictures and notice the stitching: http://schalling.se/furnitures/sold-items-furniture/18706/borge-mogensen...
Just for clarification, when I wright leather seat I mean both seat and back, there is perhaps a better word for that?

- 11 Nov 2016

Hi DrPoulet, no I havn't and you are right about my focus, it's mainly Wegner and Mogensen. Next time I go to Copenhagen I will try to find it at the library.

- 11 Nov 2016

Probably "leather slings" would be the best term.

- 12 Nov 2016

You are absolutely right: I did not catch the mention to the 226 model number as a differentiation from the Erhard Rasmussen version.

I apologize for my flippant remarks earlier. They were perhaps a bit too clever.

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